Start a new topic
Answered

Other problems with Cloud 9 release for iPhone

 This post is not about missing tasks, but about a number of other problems with the new release.


Most importantly, Cloud9 is so counter-intuitively different from the previous release that it's suicidal for Appigo to have released it without a prominent tutorial for how to use it.  Many familiar and important tasks can now only be done in previously unfamiliar ways, some of them involving more steps than required by the previous release.  After a half hour of trying to use it, I was convinced there were ten serious bugs. One by one (over a couple hours) I discovered how to carry out most of them.


It's possible that one or more of the bugs noted below are still the result of what Appigo might think of as user error and what I think of as vendor error.


The most serious bug for me: Moving a task from one project to another is so difficult!   In a “show subtasks” view, subtask info does not include the project or checklist to which it belongs. Nor does it offer a command to move the subtask directly to another project.  First I need to exit the subtask, then click edit, then move the task out of the project, then go back and click edit again in order to move the task into a new project.  In the previous version of ToDo, this whole process (which i use frequently)  all was done in one step with the "move to project" command which was available from inside the task. 


I just now figured out how to use smart lists defined by tags to find subtasks tat have that tag.  I now realize that the mysterious command "show subtasks" is intended to enable that.  But I see no way to have new smart lists come with the default of "show subtasks" to on.  If I forget to set it when I create a new smartlist, relevant subtasks will be invisible. Not even the folder holding the tagged subtask will appear in the smart list.


Your help information online refers to a “Default” for sorting that governs new smart lists unless manually changed. But the help information doesn’t say how to alter that default or if the default can’t be altered, what it is.


It would be useful to be able to see all folders by themselves (I have at least 15 folders and over half my 450 tasks are inside folders. 


Let me repeat my most important feedback:  No instructions or help are available from within this non-intuitive app. That’s aggravating because many commands are initially mysterious for an experienced user of the Cloud 8.  To release an app with this many bugs is self-destructive for Appigo. In a previous release, it took many months for Appigo to eliminate an obvious bug introduced by the new version.  This release seems to be making your user base into alpha testers of your user interface. 


Best Answer

All,


Thanks for your feedback. We appreciate hearing your thoughts and passion for Todo. I'd also like to apologize for the delayed response.

The team here recognizes that some of the changes have disrupted the workflows for some of our users and for this, we sincerely apologize. I'll try to address as many of the concerns listed above as I can. As a high-level statement, I'll say this to provide some context: The changes that were made in Todo were made to make the overall experience in Todo more friendly for the general user of the app. We recognize that for some of our users we’ve disrupted workflows and for others we’ve made workflows easier. These were tough decisions to make, and again, we apologize for the inconvenience and disruption.


To one of the points that was shared in an early post in the forum, we recognize that this update requires a bit of instruction. We have much of that planned and had it planned to roll out after the launch, but recognize now (after the launch and after comments shared here and in various support tickets) that we need to accelerate that. There has been a handful of posts put out on our blog and on our support site in the last two weeks to help with some of this and more will be coming. My apologies that the speed of delivery was a miss on our part.


IN RESPONSE TO A COUPLE SPECIFIC CONCERNS


Regarding moving a subtask from project to project

This will fall in the “new way to do it” category. This is completed using the Quick Menu which enables quick action on one or multiple tasks. “Move to Project” is one of the options here. You can read more about the new quick menu here (http://www.appigo.com/blog/quick-menu-todo-cloud-9-0/). 


We found that many users relied on the Quick Menu. In this update, we opted to increase the number of options in the Quick Menu to make this the main point of editing a task. In doing so, we took out this function on the task details screen to provide a cleaner interface.


Regarding the “Show subtask” toggle in Smart Lists

This is great feedback. We have tried to limit the number of options in which we provide “default” setting for. We found that more defaults became overwhelming for most of our users. We can definitely see how missing the toggle button here could definitely create confusion in the Smart List. This is something we’ll discuss here at HQ.


Regarding Alerts/Reminders

Yes, this has been changed. We have combined alerts and due dates into the same function. We went with the "less is more" option here by providing users with preset options for alerts. With that being said, I'm interested to know the scenarios and use-cases in which you used the separate calendar picker in Todo 8. We've been discussing this feature and improvements to it and your insight would be helpful.


In regards to altering defaults

General default settings (app-wide) are accessed by tapping on your name in the top left. This will take you to your information and allow you to personalize some of the defaults to how you’d like do see it.


You can also change settings on lists (Smart and Custom) by swiping left on the list as Ian noted in the forum.


Regarding Smart Lists and Filters

We recognize that this is a fundamental change to the way that some of our users move around our app. We feel that overall the Smart List functionality will be beneficial to our user-base in the long run. It is recognized that there is a disruption in workflow and again we’re very sorry for that in your case, Sebastian.


You can learn more about Smart Lists here (and there will be more to come):


Regarding MacOS

We are an iOS-first shop and have plans for MacOS and web to follow. Timing is TBD as we are hoping to use feedback like this to refine what we're doing in the new UI and when we feel we've tightened down well enough, we'll convert the other platforms.


Other (specifically for Stuart)

  • List Spacers are deleted by dragging them to the bottom of the screen
  • Currently, you are not able to add icons to Smart Lists, just your Custom Lists - this is done by swiping left on the list.
  • Regarding subtasks in Smart Lists - we are working on a fix for this - being able to easily associate the subtask with its parent. This will be addressed in a future release.
  • Regarding Tags and a Smart List - you can create a Smart List for specific tags. The links above about Smart Lists outline how this can be done.


Again, we apologize for any inconvenience and are grateful for your feedback. I hope that the above helps answers some of your questions.


Best regards,

Kevin


2 people have this question

I am in complete agreement with Stephen Ehmann. The new design is horribly counter-intuitive. Things aren't where I expect them to be and the app has me looking all over the place to find things, because there is no explanation or help offered.


I'm not using this app as part of a team, yet it shows me my own name as a sort of headline for the whole thing, which means I have to shield my phone with my hand when using Todo in public. You know, I know my own name, thank you very much. It would have felt more logical to have a settings-menu or some sort of main-menu where my name now goes. Don't get me wrong, I do like my own name, it's just maybe a bit redundant to show it to me twenty times a day?


On a serious note, though: I welcome a new update to my beloved Todo 8. But I'm afraid to say that it might be time for me to look around for an alternative, for the new Todo 9 is for me a big downgrade. With the update comes not only annoying work-flow disturbances, such as the aforementioned counter-intuitative placement of various functions, but it also strips me of my most-used everyday tools: the filter options. It seems ironic how the developers exhibit these "smart lists" as if they were the most powerful things in the world, and yet they can't help me do a simple thing that I want to accomplish. Specifically: in the old version I could filter my entire Todo system at the click of one option (a context, a tag or a date) and the whole thing adapted to display only the concerned tasks, without changing the structure of my lists. I could then browse my entire system as if these were the only tasks I had in there – each list now had but one or two, relevant tasks instead of tens of irrelevant ones. And if I wanted I could narrow the filtering down even further by highlighting yet another tag, date or so. And at the tap of an 'X' the filters disappeared and I was back to viewing the whole system in its entirety again. It couldn't have been simpler.


But today – as I have understood it thus far – I have to create a whole new list just to view specific contents in my other lists? Instead of having the content of all my existing lists neatly reduced and filtered, I get a new summing list which collects tasks FROM the other lists into one major list – which really makes it rather hard to tell which task came from which original list, doesn't it. Why would I want a big list of twenty-odd badly organized tasks? They where neatly organized into lists before you dragged them out of there and put them in a big pile that you call a "smart" list. My tasks were in those lists for a reason, because that's how I want to view them. In separate lists. Not in a collective list. So, what was before a single, simple quick filter-function now has to be performed as a sort of list-creation procedure. Where is the logic in that? (Note: I suppose that these lists that I mention are what the above user means by "folders".)


To sum up, the new update is neat and pretty indeed and not without some new benefits, and like I said I very much do welcome a fresh update to my most used app of all times, but it pains me to say that in its current state I'm afraid the app is not of much use to me anymore. If one could just select tags, dates and/or contexts (why the heck were these removed?!) from the magnifier at the top of the screen, activating a filter for the whole app (as opposed to showing you a list of search results spotlight-style), I could still find use for Todo.


I'll give it a few more days to see if any solution comes up. But, I have already started looking around, and after four-five years as a steady user and Todo Cloud customer, I think it might be time to say good-bye to this much-favored app.


2 people like this

Sebastian,


Thank you for your reply...and no apologies needed for the timing of your response...I'm just glad that we're hearing from you. 


Regarding filters - I'm sharing your exact questions with our development team. They are more familiar with the reasoning here and will need them to help provide more context than I will. Will try and have a response for you as soon as I can.


Regarding the ability to re-arrange buttons in the Quick Menu...yes, you can absolutely do that. Press and hold on the icon and drag it to where you'd like it. For instance, I've got all my scheduling functions first and then go into prioritizing and organizing (lists).


I'm glad that you're liking some of the newer nuances of the app. There has been a lot of thought put into certain features and parts of the UI and we know that in time more customers will experience those and enjoy them. 


Thanks,

Kevin


1 person likes this

I've just stopped using it on my iPhone. I have this problem that my Focus List = Everything, and I can't find any settings to change. Have you figured that one out?


Ian


1 person likes this

I'm not sure if they have a problem with the code, as much as a Change Management problem. Things I initially thought were bugs turned out to be a new way of doing things (I'm thinking of the Focus List on IOS, which became the same as Everything, until I discovered that it's settings are controlled by sliding the title to the left, which exposes an Edit button). 


And it doesn't help that the Web version hasn't been upgraded simultaneously, so that settings on one platform do not synchronize with the other. 


1 person likes this
Is there any comment from Appigo? I can't see answers to anything. I feel like my subscription money has not funded improvements from the active loyal user base. As mentioned, time to look elsewhere - I dont think they care.
a couple of other things that they seem to have eliminated with this update: -the ability to set multiple reminders at a date and time that are independent of the due date -the ability to set a sound for the reminder that is different from the iPhone text notification sound Simple items but ones I used a lot.

Kevin,


Thanks for your thorough and helpful reply (and at the same time, pardon this late one). Well handled!


I've continued using Todo, though to a much lesser extent than before. It's really running at half-capacity at the moment in my view. I've pondered what advice I could give to the Todo developers, analyzed my needs and boiled it all down to basically one very simple and basic feature, that I've mentioned before: filters. Could you Kevin perhaps explain the thoughts of the Appigo team when you had the filter function removed? 


I'll try to avoid repeating myself here, but the ability to sort and filter ones list is absolutely elementary to any data system – especially GTD systems. What happened? I need this function. I've found some (limited) use for the smart lists, but they're not designed for that purpose. Please read my earlier post (above) for a detailed complaint on this issue. I really need to be able to *HIDE* tasks that are irrelevant at this particular moment, and show/hide other tasks at other moments. This basic function was removed in the update.


To give some cred though, I very much enjoy many of the clever little updates and enhancements, like the quick edit task-menu thing that pops up at the bottom (is there a way to re-arrange buttons in there?). Also, many other good new (and refreshed old) functions that I can't remember now off the top of my head.


All in all, I still love Todo. But I need it for my work (and life!!), but without a proper filter function I just don't use it as much anymore. I'm back to manually arranging lists in Apple Notes (and post-its on the wall).


Cheers,

Sebastian


PS: I noticed the calendar-filter is back in the latest release. That's a huge step in the right direction! ;)

Answer

All,


Thanks for your feedback. We appreciate hearing your thoughts and passion for Todo. I'd also like to apologize for the delayed response.

The team here recognizes that some of the changes have disrupted the workflows for some of our users and for this, we sincerely apologize. I'll try to address as many of the concerns listed above as I can. As a high-level statement, I'll say this to provide some context: The changes that were made in Todo were made to make the overall experience in Todo more friendly for the general user of the app. We recognize that for some of our users we’ve disrupted workflows and for others we’ve made workflows easier. These were tough decisions to make, and again, we apologize for the inconvenience and disruption.


To one of the points that was shared in an early post in the forum, we recognize that this update requires a bit of instruction. We have much of that planned and had it planned to roll out after the launch, but recognize now (after the launch and after comments shared here and in various support tickets) that we need to accelerate that. There has been a handful of posts put out on our blog and on our support site in the last two weeks to help with some of this and more will be coming. My apologies that the speed of delivery was a miss on our part.


IN RESPONSE TO A COUPLE SPECIFIC CONCERNS


Regarding moving a subtask from project to project

This will fall in the “new way to do it” category. This is completed using the Quick Menu which enables quick action on one or multiple tasks. “Move to Project” is one of the options here. You can read more about the new quick menu here (http://www.appigo.com/blog/quick-menu-todo-cloud-9-0/). 


We found that many users relied on the Quick Menu. In this update, we opted to increase the number of options in the Quick Menu to make this the main point of editing a task. In doing so, we took out this function on the task details screen to provide a cleaner interface.


Regarding the “Show subtask” toggle in Smart Lists

This is great feedback. We have tried to limit the number of options in which we provide “default” setting for. We found that more defaults became overwhelming for most of our users. We can definitely see how missing the toggle button here could definitely create confusion in the Smart List. This is something we’ll discuss here at HQ.


Regarding Alerts/Reminders

Yes, this has been changed. We have combined alerts and due dates into the same function. We went with the "less is more" option here by providing users with preset options for alerts. With that being said, I'm interested to know the scenarios and use-cases in which you used the separate calendar picker in Todo 8. We've been discussing this feature and improvements to it and your insight would be helpful.


In regards to altering defaults

General default settings (app-wide) are accessed by tapping on your name in the top left. This will take you to your information and allow you to personalize some of the defaults to how you’d like do see it.


You can also change settings on lists (Smart and Custom) by swiping left on the list as Ian noted in the forum.


Regarding Smart Lists and Filters

We recognize that this is a fundamental change to the way that some of our users move around our app. We feel that overall the Smart List functionality will be beneficial to our user-base in the long run. It is recognized that there is a disruption in workflow and again we’re very sorry for that in your case, Sebastian.


You can learn more about Smart Lists here (and there will be more to come):


Regarding MacOS

We are an iOS-first shop and have plans for MacOS and web to follow. Timing is TBD as we are hoping to use feedback like this to refine what we're doing in the new UI and when we feel we've tightened down well enough, we'll convert the other platforms.


Other (specifically for Stuart)

  • List Spacers are deleted by dragging them to the bottom of the screen
  • Currently, you are not able to add icons to Smart Lists, just your Custom Lists - this is done by swiping left on the list.
  • Regarding subtasks in Smart Lists - we are working on a fix for this - being able to easily associate the subtask with its parent. This will be addressed in a future release.
  • Regarding Tags and a Smart List - you can create a Smart List for specific tags. The links above about Smart Lists outline how this can be done.


Again, we apologize for any inconvenience and are grateful for your feedback. I hope that the above helps answers some of your questions.


Best regards,

Kevin

I totally agree with the issue of an unintuitive interface with NO documentation being a major shortcoming. 

I am a long time user who has also watched issues take forever to get resolved.  Now, A new release that, in many ways, is a major step backwards

Questions:

- I added a spacer in my lists....now how do I eliminate it????

- How do I add icons to the smart lists?

- When showing subtasks in a smart list view, how do I determine what project a subtask is part of?

- When looking at a smart list (with view subtasks), how do I filter to see just items with specific tag(s)

I have many other questions, but let's just start with these.

Ian, I agree. And the MacOS version remains the same for now as well.  They seem to be beta testing the interface of iOS. I imagine that, once they get the documentation and features straight, they'll convert the other platforms.  It doesn't feel like they have a very large staff working there.

 

Thank you Kevin for the handy tip. Rearranging the icons was easy!


Looking forward to a comment from the team.

Sebastian

I know I have been vocal about the bugs in Todo Cloud Web and I am still upset about continual bugs being introduced there and the length of time to fix critical bugs, but I wanted to just comment in this thread that I actually found the iOS update to be very nice.  I use both the web and iOS client every day and I guess I haven't encountered the iOS problems that are being reported in this thread.   I'm hoping that the web client gets updated to match soon.

 

Michael,


Thanks for your feedback. Glad that you're liking the new iOS update. We are planning on updating the web client. Wanting to get some learnings and refinement in the iOS app first, but the update will happen in time.


Best regards,

Kevin

Login to post a comment